Curse

Fire Turok · Mar 16, 2012, 02:35 AM // 02:35

Hey fellow GW players.

As an avid GW player for 6 years now, I've had this question on my mind. Why does the Zaishen vanquished quests for the day give less coins than others? Even easy bounties in hard mode give more coins than the Vanquish. I'd love to see more coins come from the daily Vanquish, as I usually do them. Doing the Vanquish is a lot more difficult and time consuming than the bounties. Just a suggestion, but I'd love to be rewarded more for spending an hour vanquishing than ten minutes killing the bounty.

Vann Borakul · Mar 16, 2012, 03:12 AM // 03:12

I'm guessing it's because it's not supposed to be a good farming option. You already get rewards for vanquishing - titles. You don't get much else for doing the other ones, so rewards on top of rewards could diminish the value of the other options.

Missions have titles too, but those are a hell of a lot more fun to do than vanquishes, so I imagine many people are already inclined to do them.

Spiritz · Mar 16, 2012, 08:14 AM // 08:14

Err id disagree with the " Even easy bounties in hard mode give more coins than the Vanquish."
Ive seen some bosses that require alot of work just to reach .
VQ`s can be done fairly quick if you have the builds/heros to do them - some places can be done in 15 - 20 mins easily.Some bosses require you to be in a place that many may not have access to or some like nendi fin require you to go right thru a dungeon / zone / mision just to reach.VQ wise - most places are easy access from a town.

Mintha Syl · Mar 16, 2012, 09:04 AM // 09:04

Mh I don't see vqshes giving so few. Most give 250 while most hm bounties give 70. True it's not like this for all but...there's vqs which take 10mins and others that take hours, bounties you done in half an hour with 10 of your chars and others that are hell yo reach..(just think about bounties for bosses ib uw, doa and fow, it's not like they give you more coins). I'ts hard to find a balance I think.
What i find more unfair is having almost no reward for ascalon vq as starter areas got smaller rewards...not counting they're effectivly the hardest ones to do.

sun strike · Mar 16, 2012, 09:36 AM // 09:36

Ascalon was probably the easiest, but it sure did take the longest.

i agree with rewards for vanquishing should be increase, either more reputation points for certain areas or more coins.

drkn · Mar 16, 2012, 11:28 AM // 11:28

I'd rather see the rewards for other activities nerfed, especially the PvP ones, than anything increased.

Swingline · Mar 16, 2012, 11:51 AM // 11:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

I'd rather see the rewards for other activities nerfed, especially the PvP ones, than anything increased.

If your talking about strongboxes then yes.

Right now the rewards for vanquishing are pitiful, especially in Prophecies and Factions. If the Zaishen VQ is one I have already done then I won't do it, not worth the time tbh.

razerbeak · Mar 16, 2012, 12:36 PM // 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

If the Zaishen VQ is one I have already done then I won't do it, not worth the time tbh.

This is how I approach the Zvanqs as well, with he exception of Luxon and Kurzick areas. But even then the reward is only a slight bonus on what you get from the regular vanquish rewards.

drkn · Mar 16, 2012, 12:48 PM // 12:48

Quote:

If your talking about strongboxes then yes.

Not only. Compare rewards available here to any PvE Zaishen activities. On top of that, they're repeatable.

Fire Turok · Mar 16, 2012, 01:04 PM // 13:04

I didn't mean to state anything like even the 15min vanquishes need more coins, all I really meant was if im spending hours vanquishing Sacnoth valley or talus chute, I'd love to get more than 100 coins, as these are time consuming vanquishes. Maybe they could do something with the foe count, how many coins you get depends on the foe count, like double the amount of enemies you've killed.

Fitz Chivalry · Mar 16, 2012, 01:07 PM // 13:07

If anything the PvP quest should give more coins. Like 2 silver coins for 9 consecutive RA wins, LOL? like 80% of the community couldn't do that in the time it takes them to vanquish one area.

drkn · Mar 16, 2012, 01:39 PM // 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Chivalry

If anything the PvP quest should give more coins. Like 2 silver coins for 9 consecutive RA wins, LOL? like 80% of the community couldn't do that in the time it takes them to vanquish one area.

RA is too luck-based to be further promoted with higher ZCoin rewards. The rewards shouldn't be scaled based on relative difficulty of the action to achieve them ("if only 10% of players can do it, let's give them more wealth than they already get because they can do it!"), but time investment and skill required.
The HA example provided above would be fine, but not with 2 wins required... or if it was once per account - then it might be even higher.

Missing HB · Mar 16, 2012, 02:29 PM // 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Chivalry

If anything the PvP quest should give more coins. Like 2 silver coins for 9 consecutive RA wins, LOL? like 80% of the community couldn't do that in the time it takes them to vanquish one area.

The obvious problem here is that other formats can reward more for not doing anything. Typically on GvG quest day, 60% of the activity will be playing with several accounts on low rating to face other players doing the same...
Can you imagine the reward you get with 2 accounts for such a small job involved ? And consider some are doing it with 5-6 accounts...

My point is that Vanquishing an area can be long( oh too bad i didn't find last mob running around, now i need to go), is generally quite boring( especially if you're not doing it with humans), and the reward associated isn't entertaining IF YOU COMPARE it to other quests..
Overall, i generally can find a team for Zaishen bounty in a matter of time, but it's not the case for the vanquish....

The typical example for PvE that comes to my mind is : Mobrin The swamp lord that rewards 1k gold, 1k250 asuran points and 105 copper coins. The vanquish today is Watchtower coast, rewarding 1k and 50 copper coins... Quite balanced isn't it ?

MithranArkanere · Mar 16, 2012, 03:02 PM // 15:02

In any case, it's true that rewards are not very balanced.

Killing Shiro is as easy as filling your party with A, W and E, and having at least one Gu, and spam their celestial skills, takes less than 1 minute and yet it gives 150 cZCoins.
In the other hand, Areas like Aurora Glade give just 100 points, but they can be painstakingly hard, even if the party members know what to do. Or just require retry after retry regardless of the skill of the players, like when you have bad luck with enemy spawns in Divinity Coast and the enemies get too close too soon to the villages and get killed no matter what you do, even if you bring running skills, blindness and lots of healing and protection.

But they are a lot of areas and missions, it must be really hard setting the correct reward for each one, so they probably went for fixed numbers: 30, 45, 50, 70, 100, 150, 200, 250... based just on average number of enemies and how long it takes to reach the spot from the start of the campaign.

It would be great if there was some internal counter for the number of times something is failed (wipe to 60% DP in dungeon or vanquish in HM, failed mission), and give more rewards the more people fail.
But then people could make some community event to exploit that, and gather in masse for some easy mission to fail on purpose and increase the reward.

All in all, Zaishen quests are more of a way to gather people to do the same thing, and give you an idea of what to do today if you can't decide.
You get some extra rewards from it, which is nice, but you shouldn't do it if you were not going to do it anyways. Why Vanquish an area you have vanquished already, when you can vanquish other areas or vanquish with other characters?
And if you didn't, getting the golden helmet is also a neat reward.

Mintha Syl · Mar 16, 2012, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

You get some extra rewards from it, which is nice, but you shouldn't do it if you were not going to do it anyways.

I agree with this. I get a bonus for doing a random thing when bored or when doing things you'd do anyway for other reasons.

And when you badly need to gather as many zcoins as possible...there's always missions like imperial sanctum, aurora glade, morah, raisu palace...or bounties like pyatt the swift or arbor earthcall: a big reward for almost no effort, do it with all your chars and you're swimming in zcoins.

Honestly though, since I started vanquishing with the zai I noticed I could make a heavy equip pack in almost no time...while redoing always the more rewarding miss/bounties gets old fast. And sure you're getting no coins for doing missions or bounties in nm either...it's like what, 40 coins for a full proph mission? But here I'm starting to repeat myself :P

Missing HB · Mar 16, 2012, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Mission Objectives then are the reason... Besides the " low " reward, most people in my guild aren't doing those because there's nothing original and they've vanquished everything...

Now i'm thinking of it, more players would be doing it maybe if objectives were like :
- Kill 50 mobs without dying ( 25 coins)
- Kill 100 mobs ( 25 coins)
- Kill a boss within 5 seconds ( 10 coins)
- Vanquish the area within 30mn( 75 coins)
( of course, times and numbers being proportionnal to the area's size)

WoC part 3 was enjoyed because quests were more original, it wasn't only about killing mobs over and over... The same is done with zaishen bounty... although it's just about killing, it's turned into an original way...

Spiritz · Mar 16, 2012, 05:31 PM // 17:31

The main arguement will always be - PvE vs PvP
PvP can repeat the z pvp stuff and easily farm the hell out of them , PvE requires one chr per attempt so an average player who has maybe 5 pve chrs can only do it 5 times and then no more and thats only if all 5 chrs have access to that map.
Missing HB - a mob is a group of people - 50 mobs = ?

Kook~NBK~ · Mar 17, 2012, 12:52 AM // 00:52

I agree that the Z-vanquish rewards could use re-working. When one considers the degree of difficulty and the time requirement, there's a lot of disparity between different vanquishes with the same rewards. For examples:

Shaoshang Trail = 50 coins, Sunqua Vale = 50 coins. (Both easy-peasy, but Shaoshang takes about 1/4 the time)

Plains of Jarin = 150 coins, Maishang Hills = 150 cons. (They're similar in size and number of foes. They can both be done with a party of 8. But there's a big difference in the degree of difficulty.)

BTW: The difference between Sunqua Vale and Plains of Jarin ? About 60 enemies.

I've always wondered why there are only 3 tiers (50, 150, and 250 copper coin rewards) for the Z-vanquish, especially looking at the wide range of areas covered by the 150 coin tier.

KotCR · Mar 17, 2012, 04:46 PM // 16:46

Should be bonus Z-Coins for vanquishing a Krytan area when War in Kryta is active, and bonus Z-Coins for vanquishing a Canthan area while Winds of Change is active, too, seems these obviously make the areas a great grand deal harder, especially in the case of some of the Shing Jea areas with Winds of Change active.

Fire Turok · Mar 22, 2012, 07:10 PM // 19:10

Another thing that kind of bothers me is the RA repeatables. You get 30 coins, 500gold and 3k Balthazar faction for winning just 3 times, not in a row. Quite easy to do that in about 15 mins or so, netting you 120 coins, 12k faction + faction from actual fighting in RA, and 2,000 gold. Thats not including streaks you may get, as you get more coins for that too. And strongboxes, easily sold at 4k each. Plus gladiator points. That's a lot of reward for so little input, unlike vanquishing.